The taxation without representation is something I've often mentioned with raltion to sin taxes, particularly tobacco taxes. People who pay tobacco taxes are NOT represented by their taxes, whether from the MSA, federal, state or local taxes. I don't know of any tobacco taxpayer who has had any say in how his tobacco taxes are spent. Yes, very anti-American.

As for the legal front, we are currently in the midst of a terrible problem. There really is a judicial reference manual for assessing scientific evidence in a court of law. People are currently trying to re-write the manual and brand it as a "new edition". Moreover, the people trying to justify the re-write are very ill-qualified and very politically-motivated.

Soapy, sadly those principles have been hit with a fatal compromise over the past 35 years. Back in 1974 Nixon wanted us all to drive at 55 mph to save gas. Now the Fed gvt has no power to regulate state speed limits. **BUT** some creative soul suddenly realized that the Fed gvt DOES have the power to give OR NOT GIVE a lot of money to the states each year to build and maintain their highway systems. Sooooo.... the Feds basically said, "Either you make your speed limit 55 mph or we cut off your highway funds." This same blackmail trick was used to force states to adopt a 21 year old drinking age.

When the Constitution was written the framers were VERY concerned about the Feds ever getting too much power and they built in a lot of rules to stop it from happening. The one thing they NEVER thought about was the possibility that the American people would be stupid enough to hand over huge sums of money to a government that was supposed to do almost nothing except deliver mail and defend us from invasions by the French, Spanish, and British who were all 5,000 miles away!

Of course we HAVE been stupid enough, and now the Feds have so much money to hand out that the states are completely and absolutely addicted to it. The Feds can now pretty much dictate anything they want to the states and get away with it because no state can afford to give up federal money for highways, education, drug education/enforcement, etc etc etc.

So that aspect of the Constitution is pretty much out the window.

The taxation without representation was not, I believe, formally in the Constitution so that's another sort of story. The MSA is being challenged more, I think, for violating the terms limiting how states can get together in back rooms and make agreements with each other to act as single entities... illegal "compacts." I'm not a lawyer and this isn't an issue I argue much so I may be way off in parts of my description, but I *think* I'm in the ball park.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"

Michael and Soapy,

True that he taxation without representation was never, to my knowledge, put in the constitution. The problems of it are as you've described, Michael. Interestingly, my understanding is that the last go-round with alcohol and tobacco prohibitons were eventually cut short when the government starting collecting taxes. (I'm not sure, but I think the introduction of income tax made the sin taxes less appealing. So, politicians hopped on the moralistic prohibition bandwagon until the Great Depression made them realize how more sin sales could bring in more needed $$$.) So, it's all tied together, historically. Now, the result is that we truly have taxation without representation, which (as you say) is not what our founding fathers ever envisioned. But, once again, as the economy falters, the politicians are destined to start looking to sin taxes to get them out of it but, this time, their tactic appears to be hiking sin taxes while promoting bans and other antismoking measures. This trend will either give way to more realistic and rational measures or we will be headed for something much worse than the Great Depression.

The MSA violated the Compact Clause of the US Constitution, which forbids states to make agreements with companies/corporations. The Competitive Enterprise Institute was suing over that last i heard. And, of course, the mastermind behind it, Dickie Scruggs, has since been convicted of bribing a judge (on a different matter). Even more interesting is that some of the state Attornies General who signed the MSA, such as Elliot Spitzer, have also since come to some bad ends. Nasty business.

Thank you both, I apprieciate both your patience and your finding the time to educate me on what is happening over the pond and the constitution.

No problem, soapy. As this thread title indicates, we're all in this together. So, it's just as important that we all learn what's going on where and how things work. Alas, everything I know of British politics, I learned from "Sir Humphrey Applebee", LOL!! :-)

Seriously, by the time we're all done with this stuff, I think most of us would make fine politicians in our own right! We're becoming experts on politics and media both from what we learn from each other AND from what we learn trying to get good information to others. *G* Seriously, I'd never really read the Magna carta before all this. If you've got time, I suggest http://constitution.org/ because it has all sorts of fascinating facts and history.

Alas, I think I'll be a bit less accessible from now on. But I'm sure that Michael will continue to share/exchange information.

This post was last modified: 18-12-2008 07:02 PM by DancingTigerBait.

well i shall now erase his insane postings.

WE do not accept Pharmamafia ads on our forum:

This eroll schould swallow his deadlw chantix and zyban himself, and get vaccined with the fatal injuries too:

PISS OFF Eroll.