hello

I am Soapy, I live in Rainworth England.

Firstly I thank you for the provision of and English translation page, while I do know some german I regret that it has been too many years since I have needed to speak or write it, and the quality of my efforts would probably make an 8 year old cry!

You are of course acutely aware of the problems worldwide of trying to get smokers civil rights reformed. As I see it there are hundreds of organisations all trying to fight this, no-one seems to want to co-operate with anyone else either nationally or internationally.

I believe that no-one will achieve anything by going it alone, if this monster is to be put down we all need to work together!

I propose that if we could get enough support from enough groups in Europe we may be able to open the topic up in the European parliament as well, it will not be easy given the diverse and nationalistic views but if successful it will revolutionise world politics.

It could also impact on the other continents, If they believe they are supported by a united Europe it could strengthen their position with their repsective governments.

ASH and their allies have taken their fight worldwide, do you not think it's about time the smoking lobby does too? What do we have to lose, our right to smoke, what do we have to gain? We begin to win our rights as human beings back.

I hope that you will give this serious consideration.

hi soapy, welcome!

do not worry, we do work all together.

the international coalition againt prohibition was founded on May 2nd in Amsterdam. (Contact Ole from the Rygerpartiert or Wiel from Forces Netherlands, or Bill from Freedom2choose), (if you do not have the contacts please contact us).

We work also with 50 german smokers rights organization, with spain, switzerland, France, Belgium, Denmark (not only the Rygerpartiet), Netherlands, Israel, Hawaii, Brazil, Mexico, Ireland, several scientists against scientifical manipulation, several lawyers for smokers rights.

we also work all the time with C.A.G.E and NY clash, Illinois (Mike Mc Fadden), well with everybody. With Italy with both the italian and german speaking activists & bar owners)

And FOREST has now a very clear and firm position, which also helps a lot.

At my sense though, the most urgent ist to alert the population about the extreme dangers of Champix (Chantix), and as we do not have any smoking ban enforced in Austria yet, it seems the most urgent to avoid more massive death cases, before the ASH can start to take ppl to court to force them to suppress the smoking facilities in their firms, to sell their deadly anti-smoking seminaries. (Look in german on the champix thread: most articles are in english).

The side effects of Champix are being dissimulated in Europe (and the rest of the world: only the happy US citizens have finally been informed).
Suicide
violence (murder impulses)
psychosis,
blindness
heart attacks
diabetis
nightmares
spasms
hallucinations (ppl are already mocking the halucinogene effects of Champix in U-Tube)
sudden unconsciousness... and more.
look at this and spread urgently please (the rest will come later, or either just fish it from the german Champix thread): (I had put the ISMP study on the F2C Forum. I hope many read it. I thenhad no time to put the rest.

http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/3285

http://www.ismp.org/docs/vareniclineStudy.asp
und:
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2008...ed-by.html
http://www.twincities.com/national/ci_93...ck_check=1
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/2...7070.shtml

Try to get that poison forbidden. Write open letters to Johnson, Prohobitionist Brown, and all the politicians, and tell me: was is going on with the hunger strikes in the one psychiatric prison in UK? Smoking ban and/or Champix for Psychiatric ill ppl ist not less than an horrible torture. It raises the illness enormously as well as it multiplies the suicide and violence risks. For everyone, but even more for psychiatrical illnesses. It causes incredible suffering.

I never had time to publish the articles: if you have some, please put them here.

The english thread will be updated as soon as we find a minute.

So do not worry, and if you need addresses, contact us.

If you feel isolated, just join F2C.

Send your mail address to us, and we will take you in our english speaking newsletter.

We shall overcome :-)

This post was last modified: 13-07-2008 09:37 AM by Fanny.

Hi Fanny,

Thank you for the information, it is good to see all these countries working together in a common cause, in fact better than I thought it would be.

I am currently in contact with my Member of Parliament whom I asked to ask Gordon Brown if now he has banned smoking does he intend banning the internal combustion engine. I am told that he has seen the letter and has passed it onto the Department of Transport for a reply. I do not expect a reply from them for several months as our Parliament has broken up for it's summer recess (13 weeks!) so it will be a while before I hear anything.

Of course I do not want to ban engines but they emit greater quantities of the same and other toxins that they claim cigarette smoke does, the argument being if you have to ban cigarettes how can you justify not banning engines?

Please do feel free to translate my comments although most people speak english I think that most people are more comfortable in their native language.

Hi from another F2C member- Hi Soapy and hi Fanny(you are Nissia right on F2C?). I didnt realise we had so many countries' organisations in TICAP already!

F2C is well aware of Champix and we are trying to spread the info as much as possible around the web.

Hi chuckles good to hear from you, I got a reply from from the Department of Transport basically it says that cars and power stations are more important than people, so you can kill with cars and pollution but not with harmless cigarette smoke!

Hi soapy long time since I visited this site. DOT answer- hypocritical.

Then do come to brussels and spread the word.

FIRST WORLD CONFERENCE AGAINST PROHIBITION BY TICAP
London, UK, October 2008 - The International Coalition Against Prohibition (TICAP) will hold its first world Conference on January the 27th and the 28th, 2009. Because of its prominence in these times, tobacco prohibition was chosen as the theme of the inaugural conference. Unfortunately, the denormalization of smoking comes at the expense of many citizens' rights and it sets a very dangerous precedent, along with causing immediate and devastating economic repercussions.

The conference "Smoking Bans and Lies", will be held at The European Parliament Building in Brussels. Subjects presented for discussion at the gathering will include: the impact of smoking bans, passive smoking exposure studies, the pharmaceutical lobby and the politics of prohibition.

TICAP includes more than 20 organizations from all over the world who share the conviction that prohibitions are a threat to democracy and a free society. Once an individual's right to choose is eliminated, special interests are enriched and state intrusion is tremendously augmented.

With this conference, TICAP intends to lay the foundations of an active, world-wide opposition to the expansion of a political trend that uses questionable science and public health institutions as vehicles to control citizens.

For further information: http://www.antiprohibition.org; http://www.antiprohibition.org/ticap_pages.php?q=6

TICAP Press Office: pressoffice@antiprohibition.org

My my, is that Errol Povah, traveled all the way over to annoy folks across the sea? LOL!

Smokers of course DO have many rights. The court ruling merely indicated that some of those rights can be limited. And while it was not appealed, that does not mean it is the universal end-all-and-be-all... not even within its specific sphere of authority. Laws are constantly growing and changing, and societies go through periods where freedoms are restricted or freedoms are regained.

The TICAP conference will be a great success Mr. Povah merely by bringing representatives of many different national Free Choice organizations together as one to fight against the various evil faces of Prohibition. What will happen beyond that is anyone's guess... but I think it will go well from what I've seen of the planners.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"
Mid-Atlantic Director, Citizens Freedom Alliance
Director, Pennsylvania Smokers Action Network (PASAN)
http://pasan.TheTruthIsALie.com

Errol, the last thing I'd want in the world would be for the board host to delete your posts! By saying things like "My ultimate objective now: The total eradication of the tobacco industry from the face of the planet" and then following it with "what we are trying to achieve has nothing whatsoever to do with Prohibition" does more to show the true colors of the Smoking Neo-Prohibitionists than anything I could EVER write on my own.

Just to make it a twosome, you posted at 5am: "there is, simply, NO SUCH THING AS "SMOKERS' RIGHTS!" and then followed it up at 9am with "I have never once suggested that smokers don't have rights." Amazing. Back when I first read 1984, long before 1984, I thought "double-think" was pretty much just a fantasy.

I've learned, sadly, that it's not. We have your cohorts in Kentucky (?) pushing for a ban while proclaiming "This is not a smoking ban!" and state governors declaring that massive tax increases aren't really taxes but just "voluntary user fees." We have the State University System of PA declaring that the state's "Clean INDOOR Air Act" forces them to ban smoking throughout the entire outdoors of their campuses. We have campaigns against "killing" our children in Iraq by sending them cigars, proclamations that being near a smoker is like smoking 186 packs per hour, State bans declared 100% successful despite 2,000 violation complaints per month, employees defined as anyone who performs any sort of service for anyone else with or WITHOUT compensation ("Hey honey, grab me a beer from the fridge? ; OK bozo, but I'm gonna talk to my union!"), threats of children being yanked from foster homes because a parent might smoke OUTdoors while the same foster systems are battling headlines about torture charges of their caregivers, cops patrolling marijuana cafes to make sure no one mixes a bit of illegal tobacco in with the sweet reefer smoke... I could go on... but suffice to say even Orwell would be amazed.

And I'm sorry, but I'll quite firmly continue using the words "freedom" and "choice" with regard to this issue.... they're clearly very much needed.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"
Mid-Atlantic Director, Citizens Freedom Alliance
Director, Pennsylvania Smokers Action Network (PASAN)
http://pasan.TheTruthIsALie.com

Good to see you again, Michael. :-)

What you are dubbing "double think" is part of the dysfunctional cognitive abilities inherent in ASDS (Antismokers Dysfunction Syndrome). I draw your attention to a desire to eradicate something from the entire planet. Doesn't that sound like the megalomania symptom of ASDS to you? Banning something that is a choice until every person who makes that choice does so responsibly is irrational. For starters, if that were the case, then we would ban people from choosing to procreate until all parents raise their children responsibly. Indeed, this particular victim of ASDS exhibits many of the classic symptoms, which we would do well to continue examining. (In fact, I notice the regression to childish behaviour, such as name-calling as well as the resolute refusal to handle his own "double think" or even comprehend reality! At the risk of sounding overly clinical, it truly is fascinating.)

I caution you to recognize the futility of debating, arguing or compromising with irrational people. Studies have shown that victims of ASDS tend toward very self-destructive behaviours, which is tragic but we can’t take the responsibility for curing them on our individual shoulders. Society--and, in this instance, Public Health--would be best served by continuing to analyze the dysfunction and get these victims the help they so desperately need. Hopefully, we can eradicate ASDS more efficiently than the ACS has eradicated cancer! ;-)